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  #21  
Old 11-06-2019, 09:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Anung Un Rama View Post
...they will be clearing customs there sometime this week...
Give or take a month... Don't expect a modicum of consistency with our bunch of [CENSORED].
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  #22  
Old 17-08-2019, 01:30 PM
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Now, IMHO, this doll is certainly NOT child like in any way, however some may suggest the 125 cm mini doll version may be considered as such, due to the scale alone, so accordingly..I have passed these buyer concerns on via KD AU management, who has informed me that the legal guidance they have received in the UK, is the representation of their mini is still considered as an adult physique representation, regardless of scale. So sure, we shall see, as authorities global can be ill informed and over zealous,
I don't suppose that legal guidance was in writing was it? It would be useful to all concerned if we could see it, given the 125's current predicament.

Thx.
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  #23  
Old 17-08-2019, 05:02 PM
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I don't suppose that legal guidance was in writing was it? It would be useful to all concerned if we could see it, given the 125's current predicament.

Thx.
I think the 125cm will still quite possibly be barred on size alone given as I've said, girls start to go through puberty now at an early age and I suspect that is what they reason with smaller dolls with a "teenage" appearance.

To sort the mess out I think it would be best if Andy, Paul, Phil and Graham actually sat down with the CPS/NCA and got proper guidelines drawn up as to what can and cannot be imported.

It might mean certain body shapes no longer being imported or alternatively certain heads associated with that body shape being withdrawn.

However, at the end of the day, if it gives the UK Border Force a guideline they can check on paper and not use guesswork is that not a better thing.

I suspect though it is not just media driven hysteria and an out of date obscenity law, but also laws on representation of those under 18 involved in pornographic media.

And to muddy the waters further, there is a loop hole that can be exploit and that is if you can get something considered as "art" involving minors. Just look up the works of Jock Sturges and David Hamilton together on Google.

Also look up about the controversy surrounding the 1980s group Bow Wow Wow and their album cover for "See Jungle! See Jungle! Go Join Your Gang Yeah, City All Over! Go Ape Crazy!" to see what you can get away with in the name of art.

On that, when you view the album cover it can then be easy to see why some "teenage" looking dolls can be seen as representing someone under the age of 16 from the appearance of the groups then 14 YO lead signer Anabella Lwin.
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  #24  
Old 17-08-2019, 06:01 PM
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I think the 125cm will still quite possibly be barred on size alone given as I've said, girls start to go through puberty now at an early age and I suspect that is what they reason with smaller dolls with a "teenage" appearance.
Your comment is is very pertinent.
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  #25  
Old 18-08-2019, 05:39 AM
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You blokes seriously need to google the Tanner scale before throwing these allegations out.

This is part of the universal assessment that many global authorities use when determining what stage of adolescences vs Adult.

How do I know this, well, I been doing a bag of research and putting a paper together for submission to our own Minister of of Home Affairs about a similar ridiculous bill proposal for the import of dolls.

Our suggestion is a two fold assessment approach, it must be under height 140 cm and not possess any adult features at all to be considered as an illegal import.

So basically a doll can be legal under 140 cm if has cleary adult attributes (like the 125 Kimber does).

Additionally the extra caveat is if the doll is not intercourse capable then it should not be considered illegal either. This covers the 1/6th and 1/3 rd scale minis.

That is a very basic summary.

Those who have TDF membership can read the detail here, and you may all learn some stuff, https://dollforum.com/forum/viewtopi...1&hilit=tanner

As basically we also review ALL the UK CPS guidance as well.

or you can keep posting unsupported statements, as at this time, still no decision has been made by UK authorities regarding the status quo of the KD Mini 125.

I respectful ask for due consideration, before taking my topic further ...off topic about what has not occurred at this time.

Anung
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  #26  
Old 18-08-2019, 08:21 AM
mcsurfie mcsurfie is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anung Un Rama View Post
You blokes seriously need to google the Tanner scale before throwing these allegations out.

This is part of the universal assessment that many global authorities use when determining what stage of adolescences vs Adult.

How do I know this, well, I been doing a bag of research and putting a paper together for submission to our own Minister of of Home Affairs about a similar ridiculous bill proposal for the import of dolls.

Our suggestion is a two fold assessment approach, it must be under height 140 cm and not possess any adult features at all to be considered as an illegal import.

So basically a doll can be legal under 140 cm if has cleary adult attributes (like the 125 Kimber does).

Additionally the extra caveat is if the doll is not intercourse capable then it should not be considered illegal either. This covers the 1/6th and 1/3 rd scale minis.

That is a very basic summary.

Those who have TDF membership can read the detail here, and you may all learn some stuff, https://dollforum.com/forum/viewtopi...1&hilit=tanner

As basically we also review ALL the UK CPS guidance as well.

or you can keep posting unsupported statements, as at this time, still no decision has been made by UK authorities regarding the status quo of the KD Mini 125.

I respectful ask for due consideration, before taking my topic further ...off topic about what has not occurred at this time.

Anung
Really Anung.

The medical fact are out there. For instance did you know that the average height of a 16 YO girl in the UK is 5ft 4inches or 164cm.

Also you ignore the fact that a child is classed as anyone under 16.

The facts are that girls are going through puberty at a very early age now and like women come in all shapes and sizes along with how old they appear.

If you travel along a route to work like I have to at a time when children are going to and from junior/secondary school it is not hard to notice this fact that children do grow at different rates

These are the facts that will be taken into consideration when a UK Border Force officer inspect a doll and makes a judgement call on whether a doll is seized or not. As I have a child is defined as someone under the age of 16

Also mini dolls being allowed because they are adults is not an excuse Anung. Just look at the 120cm doll that is on sale on the forum now. For all intensive purposes it still looks like a child given plastic surgery.

Then there is another fact on the UK pornography laws regarding representation which then pushes the age up to 18. If applied then that affects the age range a doll can be considered as being seen to represent.

The only way around it is a loophole where such representation is deemed art and not pornography.

As for the CPS Guidance it is merely that guidance.

Although it may slow things down and take time to implement the only way to remove judgement calls for a UK Border Force is definitive information.

I.E: A body must not be under a certain size measurement going by the under bust, hips, waist measurement to allow the fact there are short women along with a head number that has been approved as not looking underage.
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  #27  
Old 18-08-2019, 10:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anung Un Rama View Post
Now, IMHO, this doll is certainly NOT child like in any way, however some may suggest the 125 cm mini doll version may be considered as such, due to the scale alone, so accordingly..I have passed these buyer concerns on via KD AU management, who has informed me that the legal guidance they have received in the UK, is the representation of their mini is still considered as an adult physique representation, regardless of scale. So sure, we shall see, as authorities global can be ill informed and over zealous,
I don't suppose that legal guidance (received by KD) was in writing was it? It would be useful to all concerned if we could see it, given the 125's current predicament.

My question is specifically aimed at Anung, as he seems closest to the source and able, potentially, to provide a copy of that document, unless Fletcher can provide?

Thx.
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  #28  
Old 18-08-2019, 12:09 PM
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"sighs"

What ever!

I have nothing further to write to those that do not read of fact check..the current global height standard with all standard deviations.

https://www.who.int/growthref/cht_hf...years.pdf?ua=1

Each line for the uneducated, represents the first, second and third standard deviations both above and below average height vs age for a global population sample. Now if you do not understand what a standard deviation from an average in a population sample is, well, ask yourself, should you be making speculative remarks in this topic, off topic too, mind you, as this kind of infers you talking out your but.

Like...even a stopped clock is correct twice a day.

So disregard your last reference, as irrelevant to the topic at hand.

Anyhow, as for the KD documents and advice, that is their commercial in confidence, so not in my preview to disclose.

Crikey, the next speculation I am expecting from some here, is OK...doll weight is a criteria as well vs human adult and/or teen standards...really...then we all stuffed (except those owning the heavyweights)...this is the circular false logic I am reading here. I just do not understand the negative agenda...what is the motivation, from those that do not even own the product?

and yet again...

I respectful ask for due consideration, before taking my topic further ...off topic about what has not occurred at this time.

Or are you just posting for post count and attention.(not moderating, or anything like it, just the baloney and speculation Filter is getting full, is all)

Either purchase the product, or do not, and leave it at that without continued ranting.

Anung
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Last edited by Anung Un Rama; 19-08-2019 at 01:48 AM.
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  #29  
Old 18-08-2019, 12:42 PM
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Your apparent aggression Anung is unwarranted, assuming it was directed at myself. I can't be sure.

The reason I ask whether this is a written document is that it is potentially something to be shoved up the orifice of UKBF as evidence of conflicting official guidance.

If so, I see an opportunity for KD to challenge UKBF based on this.
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  #30  
Old 18-08-2019, 05:57 PM
mcsurfie mcsurfie is offline
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Originally Posted by algaeholics View Post
Your apparent aggression Anung is unwarranted, assuming it was directed at myself. I can't be sure.

The reason I ask whether this is a written document is that it is potentially something to be shoved up the orifice of UKBF as evidence of conflicting official guidance.

If so, I see an opportunity for KD to challenge UKBF based on this.
More directed at me I suspect AH

The attempt to use a graph that shows nothing about which each line means is irrelevant. People from different races do grow too different heights.

If using the lower end line of that graph then it's corrupting information as it is the centre line that needs to be read as that is the predominate average.

Ergo, the average then height then is 1.5m for a 12 YO girl. 1.55m for a 13YO girl, 1.60m for a 14 YO girl. Then it starts to plateau to an average of around 1.625m for a girl between 15 and 19.

This is because girls start puberty at a far earlier age than boys so their growth is faster to start with but slows down faster that boys who then catch up.

It's then not to hard to see why a small, petite doll with a young looking face may be seen as a child given a child is anyone under the age of 16.

With guidance, it will always be open to interpretation. It might be a pain but it may be better if the UKBF have guidelines instead to say exactly which body, head combination can and cannot be imported.

It might mean it reduces the head choice that can be used for certain body types, but in the long run, if it makes it easier to import smaller, petite dolls then surely that is a better way around it.
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