Intellectual discussion required
 

Hi All,

Apologies for the requirements, but this paper was brought to my attention, and thought it best discussed by a UK audience - attached.

*Give me a moment - I exceeded the PDF limitations of UKLDF.
https://www.the-doll-house.com/image/Suzuki107-126.pdf

Thoughts please.

I am surprised that it takes until page 114 before the author considers fundamental ingrained beliefs from over 2000 years as a Buddist culture that everything, even the inanimate, may possess a soul and anything with a soul has consciousness.

I do not think that the author (I am assuming a woman due to the emphasis on feminism in some of the early pages) runs with that concept for anywhere near long enough in the main text as its ingrained subconsciously into their society the same as neo Christian ideals are ingrained in ours even if we have no perception of them.

The Author does however return to that concept in their conclusion. But still does not I feel give it the importance that it deserves instead pointing fingers Westward at the reasoning.

An interesting current development in Japan is the rise of women wishing to be treated as dolls by men. Not in a sexual way... Or not necessarily in that way. But women there are seeing the love and attention shown to dolls and, admittedly small in number, are becoming jealous... Searching the internet for doll manufacturing articles takes you to some quite strange places.

I have lived in the far East completely removed from western infliuence and embedded within a Buddist culture (not Japan). As such I think that has perhaps fed into the way that I treat my girls with the same level of love and respect afforded humans. In many ways my understanding of the Japanese thought process is admittedly based upon transposing my own thoughts onto others so perhaps I was reading as much between the lines as on the page in the article.

An interesting thought of my own re Buddhist culture is questioning, does the soul exist within the object already or only when treated as though it posses a soul? Very much which came first, the chicken or the egg. Their belief is that it is already there but I don't think so. With our girls, I believe that they are nothing but lifeless lumps of TPE, Resin and Steel... Until we treat them otherwise (well, I've not found scratch marks on the inside of their boxes yet). So it is being with us that gives them life... And tell me which of us has not seen a difference in our girls between the day that she arrives and when she has been pampered for a couple of weeks or is living amongst other TPE girls.

Right, the one's of you who know where I live are probably nodding agreement and those that don't know where I live don't know where to send the padded van so all good :tu

Thats my thoughts on the thesis. That the author brings together some interesting idea's but shoots wide with her approach and to my mind misses the mark in her conclusions.

Would be interesting to read a similarly constructed thesis on the subliminal transposition of buddhist ideas into western culture through doll ownership. If ever you come across anything like that I would be interested :tu

Cheers for sharing Phil.

A most erudite response my good man!

But that said, a discussion must involve more than one thought.
I have my feelings on this, but would rather hear the thoughts of the forum first.

Sorry Phil, nothing intelligent from me. I tried to read it but, Urgh, what are they blithering on about?

K

Doesn't matter if it is all drivel.

I just want everyone's opinion, as I have certain opinions around this.

"It has been said that love of a doll or a figure represents narcissism, fetishism, or a transitional object.". Well none of these apply to me. I treat my girls better than i do myself, i dont use them for sex and the only thing im turning into an old drunk.
I tried to read it, honest I did lol. As soon as i saw feminist i drifted off. Plus the chase is on :D

I think that people (Us if you will) get over our, honeymoon with our dolls, and then they become a "Companion Doll".

Just saying.
A soul? well I feel the soul is a perspective.
But if the doll makes someone feel happy/complete/ready it is all the same.
They are not affecting anyone else's life, so how is this a problem?

Thought crime is the problem that "normies" feel is happening.
So we must, tell them that their "normal" life is offensive to our "Trans" way of life.
Remember - we are Masculine Presenting, Trans-Gendered, Lesbians!
So if they don't like it, we can cancel them like J.K. Rowling.

Maybe it's just me, but I am tired of dealing with these braggarts, that feel they have the modern society behind them.
Opinions?

I believe the people on the outside looking in at us will never understand unless they try it. Walk a mile in my shoes and all that. Its a shame cos so many ways of life are now acceptable. I hope ours will be in my lifetime


And after reading shamus' reply i realise I wasted my grammer school education :21

As a woman (but certainly not a typical woman as some of you will know by now) - I am certainly not one of the bra-burning feminist brigade :21 - I don't see doll-love as a fetish or a way of objectifying someone/something. I'm not a narcissist either.

My dolls (one male and one female) came alive to me as soon as I opened their boxes and looked in their eyes. They developed personalities and I treat them as if they have thoughts and feelings, and with respect - probably more respect than I afford most humans. I don't see myself as a "doll owner" but a doll lover, having given them a home and a life with me. When I do things that involve them - whether it's choosing clothes for them, taking photos, sex, whatever, I consider whether they will be happy about it.

I've spoken to several people, "normies" as we're calling them, and I'm unsure whether their opinion is different because of me being a woman, than it would be towards any of you men. But I haven't had any negative reactions. None of these people can see the dolls as anything other than inanimate objects, but for the most part they seem to think that this is a harmless lifestyle that doesn't hurt anybody, so if it makes me happy, what's the problem? This is a reaction I've had from both women and men, being friends and work colleagues. I'm sure this won't always be the case, but if anyone has a problem with how I live my life, it is their problem, not mine.

Havent read the whole thing, found it more difficult than Tolkien to be fair, and he rambles like a group of over 50's on a weekend in the lakes...... :whistle:

But Lulu makes some good points that line up with my own experience.

Most people dont care! when this sort of thing pops up in the media all the "HaHa weirdo" comments are spur of the moment comments, forgotten in the next 24 hours. The masses certainly dont go away and have discussions about it!

On a personal level I've discovered as Lulu has, that most simply say "if it makes you happy". As I'm a bloke I also get a load of piss ripping banter along with that from the expected quarters, but it is just banter, never anything nasty. Even those who know and dont get it, aren't nasty about it or try to say I'm wrong.

So when this sort of clap trap comes along I generally feel its from someone who feels they've found some moral high ground from which to shout, seeking their 5 minutes of fame. They seem to think that nameless masses think as they do, without realising that the masses feel the same about them as they do about us. It's 5 minutes entertainment forgotten as soon as they scroll down.

K

Pretty much covered everything in the responses from Lulu, Mr K and Adam.

You'd only have to look at my girls to realise they are extremely important to me and that I love each and every one of them. "Love" ...how can one "love" an object ...but as that iconic megastar of the 90's Haddaway once pondered ..."What Is Love?" ...indeed Mr H. Indeed.

Like Mr K I have a general acceptance of my lifestyle in the public domain and also get the piss ripped out of me too by my mates. But all in good taste.
The people that judge me are people I have no desire to interact with or give any validity to their opinions either. I'm not living their life and neither would I want to. They're frequently unhappy in their worlds and I'm not. I'm content.

I tried to read the article this morning. I'll go back to it later after I cure my hangover this morning :tu

Drinking on a school night?!?! you delightfully cheeky reprobate!

K

With this one its a thesis so the person is to my mind either doing a Masters or a doctorate so unlike the tabloid articles this one will stick around and be referenced by others.

I think that the author had much less bias than some scholarly articles that I have read but at the same time they seemed to come to the work with a conclusion looking for data to support their conclusion rather than to form it.

They also seem to largely ignore the elephant in the room which is an ingrained cultural belief that everything, even the inanimate is capable of possessing a soul and by extension is alive. That underlying belief feeds into Eastern literature and should have been the focus of this study but it seems that feminism and gender studies gets in the way of logic... When I were a lad Gender studies was eyeing up the talent on a Friday night. Now it seems to be about women telling men what we are thinking and why whilst not actually having any clue. But, if you can show that you put a lot of effort into getting the evidence to support the conclusions that you already had then the conclusion must be correct.

Lol on Tolkein. I had read the hobbit and loved it so to kill two birds with one stone for my A level English I did a study of how Norse and Germanic mythology influenced the Lord of the Rings... Seemed such a bright idea expecing Lotr to be as easy a read as the Hobbit :wall There were times when it felt as though he spent whole tracts of the book describing a blade of grass growing... And then something mportant would happen and you almost had to go back and read it as your mind had gone to sleep. A shorter, more exciting version of Lotr is The Sword of Shannara by Terry Brookes. Pretty much the same story but shorter... Much, much shorter. :21 Sorry, getting off topic there from gender studies and onto something a little more meaningful.

Back to the paper. I pondered it after skim reading it yesterday and the underlying message seems to relate to the desire to impose absolute control... Which just made me think... You really don't know our girls!

Thats the sum total of it all right there! :b

and Tolkien, LOTR. 47 pages about grass growing, 1 paragraph for a pivotal moment in the story, you know , like the Battle of Helms Deep or something..... :rolleyes:

K

Well i definitely have zero control with my 3. Im just a butler lol.
Ooh... A text!..... "Dont be late home from work again. Ive already missed the chase once this week!!!! :mad:
Yes M'lady

I finished a job early... ;)
Today was going to be a photoshoot with a certain birthday girl but I really haven't progressed beyond coffee yet :21

Oh you rascal! :21:21

K

Just from the comments here I know that I don not want/like to read it. I tried it either way but my English isn't good enough to understand most of it so I stopped after a few lines.

But I searched the file name "Suzuki107-126.pdf" and found this: https://scholarworks.calstate.edu/co...ions/sj1394365
=> Date issued: 2013-09

Narcissism involves a lack of an authentic self so a person with this pathological state needs validation from others. A doll cannot give them anything.

The term narcissism is way overused in today's culture and many do not understand what it really is.

Can I also add that I like Boobs.

thanks

K

Don't know about boobs but there are plenty of tits in academia :21:24

(The thread had its chance at seriousness... Now cry havoc and let slip the comedians :tu)

:24 :24 :24 :24 :24
:b

Cry Havoc and Let Slip the Nips of Phwoorr??

K